How deep-sea diving made Richa Malik an ecopreneur

Today, the Green Shoots team dives into the Indian plastic story. We start by giving you a sense of the plastic waste landscape, and then meet Richa Malik, the founder of TheHappyTurtle.in.  https://www.thehappyturtle.in/

Richa has made it her life's mission to make people & organizations aware of the plastic menace and is generous enough to distill her years of experience within 2 podcast episodes.  Here is her linkedin profile to know more about her linkedin.com/in/richa-malik

In this episode, you will learn about green washing, zero-waste living and how can you and I live a more sustainable life.

The profiles of the Green Shoots team members in this interview are mentioned below:
linkedin.com/in/tania-saha-0a354016
linkedin.com/in/kinshuk-mishra-46abbb4

Please keep writing to us at GreenShoots.Pehlay@gmail.com

If you are interested in more content around the Sustainability Space along with the podcast,  you must visit awenest.in

Transcript

Kinshuk: Hello everyone. Hope you all had a fun filled low-waste Christmas. It is the gifting season and no matter what gift you gave or received, most gifts come with a fair amount of plastic. Today, we’re going to talk about plastic and as promised, we have an amazingly articulate and driven guest. 

Our Guest for the day had a life-changing moment while scuba diving in Indonesia. Plastic in the ocean moved her. She realized she was playing a part in it and realizing how chronic the problem was, she made it her life's mission to rid plastic out of her life and out of everyone's life as well. Her name is Richa Malik and she is the CEO of The Happy Turtle, an organization working in a number of ways to help us understand and delete plastic from our lives. We will meet her shortly with my partner in crime today - Tania, who is out there in the studio with Richa. 

But before we get to the conversation, let's just understand - what is this big deal about plastic? Plastic today is everywhere, but that was not the case a few decades back. In 1950, the global production of plastic was practically zero and today, it is 360 million tonnes. Lightweight,. durable, flexible, inexpensive to produce, plastic has many benefits leading to its widespread use. 

Coming specifically to India. In 2018, we generated 18.5 million tons of plastic waste. Alright, not the total production, the waste is 18.5 million tons. I was thinking a lot about how to convey this into a number that we can understand and this is the best I could come up with. If you can come up with a better way to articulate this number so that people understand, please do share with us. We all know that blue whale is the heaviest animal on the planet? It weighs 140 tons. Compared to that, an elephant only weighs 5 tons, practically a feather. We produced 70,000 blue whales in weight, 70,000 blue whales in one year as waste. There are only 25,000 blue whales in our oceans today. So that is the kind of plastic waste that we have generated as a country. Imagine what is getting generated globally. It can take hundreds, or even thousands of years for plastic to break down. So, the environmental damage is long-lasting. Most plastic can only be recycled once or twice before it has to be down cycled. So, recycling plastic only goes a certain distance. On top of that, only nine percent of global plastic is actually recycled and 80% ends up in landfills or water bodies and it is estimated by study done by USA Today, that we are consuming one plastic credit card, every week in the form of microplastic, one plastic credit card every week. Honestly, these are not pleasant numbers at all. And idea is not to scare ourselves into inaction, idea is to motivate us to do something about it. Today, in conversation with Richa, we will discuss how we can know more about plastic, as individuals we can contribute to the whole plastic waste management process. Now that I have done the easy job of stating the problem, Let's go meet Richa and Tania to get all our answers. 

Hi Richa, thank you for being here. We are really excited about the discussion today. Let's start by listening a bit about your sustainability journey, and then we can get along with the discussion. And thanks again for being here. 

Richa: Thank you for having me on the podcast today. I am Richa Malik. I'm the founder of a company called the happy Turtle. We're a small start-up based out of Delhi and we work towards reducing plastic consumption. Our intent is to try and drive circular economy on plastics and reduce wasteful consumption on plastic. I've been in the corporate world. I worked with P&G and Unilever for about six years and then I quit the corporate life and I became a scuba diving instructor in Indonesia and that’s of course where you see a lot of sea life but you also see a lot of plastic underwater, including brands that I used to sell. So it was kind of dharam-sankat moments and Karma come around full circle. And after a lot of such incidents, I finally decided that okay, I can put my educational background and work experience and skills to some better use than just selling for other companies and stuff. So, I decided to try and promote a sustainable lifestyle and came back to India and started The Happy Turtle. That's why the company's called The Happy Turtle as well. These Turtles are definitely happier without plastic. 

Tania: Absolutely, so Richa, jumping right in with the years that you have now spent, in this field, what are the most urgent and critical problems that need to be solved when it comes to India. As a changemaker, what do you feel needs Immediate attention? 

Richa: I would probably look at it from each of the stakeholders. So, from the government standpoint and if I talk Plastics particularly, I would look at it as the government addressing the problem of multi-layered plastics. They are working on it, but the progress is very slow and very insignificant so far. That's from the government standpoint. From the big companies and FMCG giants, etc, I think of a big problem that we keep coming across repeatedly is a lot of greenwashing by them. By just putting, you know, like a dash of aloe vera in a product and saying, oh, it's eco-friendly, but selling it in the same plastic packaging and it still has the same load of chemicals and the same 60, 70 percent, water base, Etc. It will help a lot if FMCG companies can actually put genuine efforts towards sustainability versus just marketing it and PR efforts of claiming that things that sustainable when they're actually not and from individuals, I think the biggest thing that needs to change is wasteful consumption and waste segregation. So, start segregating your household waste because that's one of the biggest challenges that comes in recycling as well where clean waste streams are not available because people just don't think segregate their household waste.

Tania:  That actually brings me to the next question, you know, something that the five of us were debating over when we first met. Who do you think has the largest responsibility in ushering in these tides of change? While, of course, none can work in isolation. But is it the individual user who holds the power or is it the manufacturers or is it the state policymakers? 

Richa: individuals. Because companies follow consumer Trends. Companies will follow upcoming consumer Trends. The governments will have to fall in line as the power of the people grows and says, one thing and one thing alone. We've seen that happen in with regards to climate change. We're seeing that happen with regards to renewable energy, Electric vehicles. So, I think individuals, when they realize that how much power they have to vote with their wallet. I think that makes a very big difference. We always underestimate ourselves that we are not a part of the solution. We can't do anything about it. Companies should, the government should, but the government is made of people from our standpoint, right? And if still we don't talk about it, till we don't make noise about it, I don't think things will change. So, I definitely think individuals play a very very big role.

Tania: But don't you think manufacturers with a role that they have been playing, in driving buying patterns, in influencing what we want have traditionally worked to move consumer buying habits away from what can be deemed sustainable. 

Richa: Yes, they have, but I think from the standpoint of Manufacturers, it's always going to be a vicious cycle, right. Companies look at making profits and selling more to make profits. There are a lot of companies that exist right now, which are selling products that you actually don't need, that a bad for you. And they are, what I would probably call, created needs, right and it's not a perfect world. In a perfect world, I would have, I would probably think of an organization only selling healthy beverages but that's not going to happen. So, we can't expect. One, we obviously can't expect all manufacturers to shoulder the responsibility and we see that as well. We can't just keep saying that Oh, yeah, companies should change. Yes. Keep blaming the companies, keep calling them out on the wrong habits and stuff, but we can't expect all manufacturers to change. We can expect some manufacturers to change, but I think those manufacturers are the ones who will realize that going forward now, it's reached a point that we can't abuse the Earth's resources relentlessly and for them to survive for the next 20, 30, 40 years, they need to switch to sustainable practices. Those manufacturers who are realizing it, who are switching to those habits, I think they will survive longer in the longer run. 

Kinshuk: So, what you're saying is for their own, good companies must start switching to sustainable practices. Now Richa, you highlighted the role that each participant has to play in this mission? What role is The Happy Turtle playing in driving the change to a sustainable living. 

Richa: So, we play a role on, I hope to say, all three in different ways. With individuals, in fact, we aim for our website to become the one place where they can do anything and everything when it comes to living, you know, plastic, relatively plastic-free way, zero waste sort of a lifestyle. We have a plastic footprint calculator, which helps them start by understanding that, yes, you are a part of the problem. So, this is the plastic that you're using. This is how you can reduce it. So, it provides you Solutions as well because a lot of things that we are using right now, we don't need them. It's wasteful consumption. So, it's not about sustainable products being expensive. It's about sustainable lifestyle overall being cost-saving as well because there's a lot of habit changes involved. So, the tool helps you figure out what those habit changes are. Then we have a plastic free supply chain where all we make our reusable alternatives to plastic and they have a social impact. So, they help rural Artisans, women from SHGs. Its a small-scale manufacturing but of course it can be expanded if you think of assembly line and large scale manufacturing as well, the key aspect being that it is plastic free. And we hope other businesses take inspiration from them. We've seen other startups, get, inspired by it. We hope bigger businesses also start switching to it. With the government, we hope to work with them on, providing them with the right data because the plastic footprint calculator, we have two versions - We have one for businesses, where we help, you know, like Corporate Offices, Etc, reduce their plastic Footprints, so both the business and the individual tool give us a lot of consumption data, which currently in India is not available. So, people sell plastic, but they don't know where what kind of plastic is being used and how is it being discarded? So, this tool helps bridge that gap and we feel that for the government, It can be very helpful because just by saying we will just ban plastic bags and not look at other things, not look at how things are being discarded, I think it's a one-sided view that they're looking at. So, this helps them get that other perspective on where the consumption patterns are and how do we help change plastic consumption and plastic pollution as a result. 

Kinshuk: This is very interesting Richa because I was myself trying to understand few months back - What is the source of my plastic consumption and I was able to observe which plastic came more frequently, fruits and vegetables, for example, and what kind of plastic came with laundry? Which all types of plastic I could give up. And I recommend to everyone listening to the podcast to check out the plastic calculator of The Happy Turtle. I am going to do the same, but tell me if I wanted to know about the carbon footprint or a plastic footprint of a brand, not an individual, would that be possible? Also, is the information openly available for any specific brand?

Richa: Yes. Absolutely. So, there is, carbon Footprints have been around for quite a few years now, a couple of decades in fact. It’s just that companies themselves are not willing to share that data. So, it's not information that would be publicly accessible. But now you do have carbon footprint calculators, which are freely available. You have plastic footprint calculators, which are freely available, which can tell you, your consumption, for sure. But to give you that same data for companies, it's something where we need to have either, you know, a change in regulations or some transparency in that information. Because carbon Footprints have been measured for a lot of companies for a lot of time with and with carbon neutrality coming in and a plus carbon credits model in place, of course, companies are offsetting, what their carbon Footprints are. So, they obviously know what their carbon Footprints are, in order for them to offset. It is just a matter of them, not sharing it publicly, so which is, which is what makes it challenging, which is where a few, you know, simple dipstick Concepts can help people understand that if, you know, things like, if you are just asking yourself questions like, okay, how do I think this is made or where do I think this is made or just reading the back of pack of a lot of labels. That helps you understand that, okay, you know, product A versus product B, if product A is made completely in India, is going to obviously have a lower carbon footprint versus something, which is important, because shipping in maritime is one of the biggest carbon footprint contributions on our planet right now. So, the moment anything is imported or anything flies or travels over the seas from one place to another, it is going to have a higher carbon footprint, no matter what your production methodologies are. It might be cheaper because of economies of scale, but it definitely would not be ecologically, or environmentally more beneficial. So simple, things like that. Simple things like reading the list of ingredients, the longer the list of ingredients, the higher the carbon footprint. It's pretty simple. So, some of those things can, especially for FMCG products really give us an insight into what's act better, what’s more sustainable, what's not more sustainable. Plus it starts, I think it starts becoming a you know, kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy because you read one thing, then you start being curious about another, then you start getting curious for something else. So, it starts cascading down the chain very quickly, for most of the people that we've talked to. We're talking about plastic footprint and which products you use the most, I think, if you're using garbage bags and bin liners at your house, that’s going to be your highest footprint, and that's where the tool comes in because a lot of people, they would be worried about plastic pollution but they don't know where they can start. The week audit that you've invested your time in, we can't expect everybody to do it. That's why the tools are there. That's why the footprint calculator is there. I think it takes about three minutes for somebody to fill it up. And in 3 minutes, it will tell you. Hey, these are your top five products. This is what you can do to reduce it. This is how much your plastic footprint will reduce by, if you do these five things and suddenly it starts becoming, you know, like five things is not very difficult for somebody to do. So, it starts feeling like yeah okay, Maybe I can do this or maybe even if I can do three out of those five, then you can figure out how much difference it is making. And a lot of times, these actions are ‘Simply Refuse’. So, for instance, even in your consumption. If it's shampoos, can you just refuse shampoo and opt for a shampoo bar? So, you know, simple switches simply try to refuse what, what's coming into the household. Like, if you're ordering online, instead of ordering online from a place, where it comes wrapped up in plastic and you look at maybe sustainable Marketplaces. Can you look at not ordering that product? Can you delay the purchase and so on and so forth? So, I think that those things help you navigate through the complex World, quite a bit. I wish companies were sharing their data transfer and leave but they're not yet doing that. 

Kinshuk: So the organization's know for sure. What is their plastic and carbon footprint, but the data is not publicly available even for a listed company. That makes sense because I was trying to compare carbon footprint of different brands of FMCG products. I couldn't find that also because the PR and marketing of these organizations is so strong that I started getting videos on how these organizations are making the world a better place. 

Richs: They will just see that they are we doing something to fix it, but does it fix 1Percent of the problem, 10% of the problem or 80% of the problem. 

Tania: These are really easy to put into practice Richa. Just shows that it's not difficult to start off on a greener lifestyle. I actually bought a tiny steel strainer for myself and I've started carrying my own tea kit on my travels. I love my cup of tea at odd hours and the tea bags and milk powder sachets is in the hotel rooms were always sending me on a guilt trip. 

Kinshuk: I just remembered this. Do you guys remember the series Mulla Nasrudeen? 

Richa: No, sorry.  

Kinshuk: Shows how old I am. 

Richa: But what was the gist of it? 

Kinshuk: It was an old series on DD. The guy had a donkey and he would walk through deserts, unique music playing in the background with slow, drum beats all his belongings on that one donkey. I imagine Tania with all of her tea strainer and water bottle on her.

Richa: But more zero-wasters are probably like that. Like if you open up my bag. You'll find like bottle and Cutlery and bag and what's not in it. So, you can imagine a donkey walking with most of us. I think. 

Tania: Yeah, it's like a tortoise or Turtle carrying it home on hold. 

Richa: Yeah, I'm gonna use that line Tania. We are Happy Turtles because we carry our belongings with us. 

Tania: So I know the problem of garbage bags is very close to Richa's heart. I remember when she started off on her own sustainability Journey, one of the first videos, She had posted online was a quick way to make our own bin liners at home using newspapers. But Richa, you know, we are not even getting newspapers anymore in so many homes. So that kind of rules out that option. There are these compostable or biodegradable, or even oxo, biodegradable garbage bags available in the market. What's the real picture here? Are they actually eco-friendly? 

Richa: No. No, it's all my favorite category of products called greenwashing. So, Oxo biodegradable is basically nothing but an additive in your normal plastic, which will make it break down. So, basically that Catalyst gets activated with UV light. So even in normal sunlight, it will start breaking back down into microplastics faster. So essentially, it's saying instead of this becoming microplastics, 20, 40, 80 years later, it will become microplastics in six months. So, you will end up eating what bags you consume effectively speaking. 

Tania: Okay, instead of two generations, you're consuming.

Richa: Compost so far, compostable and biodegradable bags. Now the firm biodegradability in itself is a catch-22 because biodegradability, everything is biodegradable. Even diamonds are biodegradable, because biodegradability doesn't have a timeline attached to it. So eventually everything will break down. Once the Planet is dead, of course, everything has biodegraded by that time, right? So, biodegradability in itself, just because it has a term bio tends to confuse people a lot. Biodegradability should not be taken as a term of something being eco-friendly. Compostability on the other hand, has a timeline attached to it and certain conditions attached to it. So, when you say something is compostable, banana peel is compostable under any condition. So, if you throw a banana peel in nature, if you throw banana peel in a home compost, it will break down in both places, and if you throw a banana peel in an industrial, composting facility it will break down there as well. But these compostable bags, their conditions of compostability are that they need industrial composting facility to break down which means they need a temperature of 65 degrees and above, they need 1.7 atmospheric pressure or above and they need the exactly right microbial cocktail for at least 60 days before they can start breaking down and they break down into compost after that. But they also release microplastics. They also release other toxic chemicals, within permissible limits. So, imagine if you're composting only compostable bags at the end of the day, your permissible levels themselves. 2 percent of 1 kilo is nothing but 2 percent of one ton is a lot, right? So, these products are not at all, eco-friendly, and imagine our country’s scenario where people don't segregate, where people are putting these everything into this garbage bag. Can you actually send that garbage bag to Industrial composting facility? And by the way, we have we barely have 40 or 50 of these industrial composting facilities in India, to begin with. So, imagine these bags reaching that facility and then breaking down like the probability of that is probably as close to zero as possible. So, these bags are nothing but green washing. The only environmental benefit that they provide is that they're made out of plants starch or plant cellulose and everything instead of using crude oil, but besides that their environmental footprint, their carbon footprint, their life cycle assessment is all higher than plastic. So, they don't even provide a benefit over traditional plastic. leave alone being eco-friendly from any aspect other than utter and complete greenwashing.

Tania: So, you are saying that even the ones that claim to be hundred percent plastic-free, They have enough and more chemicals in them to not be considered eco-friendly 

Richa: No and Yeah, they don't. And the claim itself is wrong because plastic by definition itself is a synthetic polymer. These products are a synthetic long chain polymer using plant cellulose as a source. So, there's still a plastic. It's a category called bio-Plastics, which covers bio-based Plastics. Biodegradable Plastics, compostable plastic but they are still plastics. They're just playing on the sustainability-oriented mindset of people that you use the term saying plastic-free which will make people think that it's actually not plastic. But if it looks and feels like plastic, I think we need to rely on our common sense more than marketing claims. 

Kinshuk: These issues can push well-meaning people in the wrong direction and these are the facts that people don't have. I did my order, but ignored the garbage bag. Where can people access this kind of information. How do you get information to people? What can be the biggest source for that? 

Richs: I think. So, the biggest issue with regards to even well-meaning individuals right now is this information asymmetry because obviously I can't expect somebody who's 80% of the day is different job to invest as much time as I do on finding these pieces of information. So, we do try and disseminate this information through social media or through our website, through a lot of Articles and interviews that we give. But there is definitely a lot of information asymmetry. So, the moment ee do a second, click. I think the curiosity is where we are lacking right now because we don't need to trust these marketing claims. So, if you start questioning them and trusting our Common Sense more, I think we'd be able to find the answers. For your waist ordered one, I would obviously shamelessly recommend my plastic footprint calculator where you can visit our website, TheHappyTurtle.in and you can calculate it. It looks at most of your common household Plastic Products, but not everything, because within three minutes is difficult to audit everything, but it does give you a very broad understanding of where you are using how much of Plastic. So, you don't have to step out of your house. You can do it on a relaxed Sunday. You can do it when you are free. It's available 24/7 and there's a lot of information as well. So, we put up a lot of links of documentaries, of research papers etc, which people will normally not be able to find because it's not like, normally people don't even think that all is there a documentary on plastic pollution and will I get it? There's like hundreds. So, usually providing people with the information that they wouldn't even think or and then starting from there and then a lot of times people think that alternatives are not there in India. No, they are. They're just smaller businesses, who don't have that much marketing budgets that we can reach out to you the way fmcg Giants can, but they do exist. So it's got to be a little bit more of an effort from an individual as well, because these are smaller scale solutions that are available but they're definitely available.

Kinshuk: Richa, 1 Question that we keep encountering is sustainable choices impede the growth agenda of third world countries. Are both possible at the same time? Will our country continue to grow if it makes sustainable choices?

Richa: To put it in a very short answer, Yes but just to explain why I think that. One, conscious consumerism does not mean zero consumerism. A lot of habits currently, even if you look at the bottom of the pyramid in India, a lot of their current habits are more sustainable than our urban habits. And those are not the ones where we should be looking at, you know, so-called developing them, because it's not developing them. It's something we should be learning from them where we should be developing them and trying to pull them out of poverty is definitely healthcare medicines, essential benefits. So, building the consumerism on the right pillars in those areas, definitely makes sense. Conscious consumerism is profitable for both the businesses and it's more economical for the consumer. 

Because the products will last them longer, the products will help them and improve their health overall and it doesn't bear on their pocket in a way that they end up piling on medical expenses. When it comes to the offsets. Like you mentioned, right? Constructing roads has a carbon footprint. Yes. Absolutely. It does. And it releases microplastics into the neighboring soil as well. But is it a necessary cost? Yes, it is. If it is a necessary cost to get medicines to a village faster. Absolutely. We should go for it. So, there's always going to be a bit of a compromise. In fact, the UN Sustainability development goals are called sustainability development goals, Sustainable development Goals SDGs and not development goals because they need to be sustainable in that aspect. They need to be sustainable that we're not robbing from the environment more than we can manage to. We're not, we're not ripping off the planet in a way just to claim that it's economically beneficial and there's a lot of talk on climate justice as well, which developing countries are talking about where of course, there's going to be more emissions from a developing country as they start developing further as compared to a developed Nation. Currently, per capita carbon emissions for developed countries are the highest and the developing nations are among the lowest which is where they see that, okay, you should reduce your per capita carbon emissions because that's harming the planet more and you've been limiting for much longer and at a higher level versus us, and now you're going to rob us of the chance of development. Absolutely agree, but there needs to be a limit to that as well. Well, per capita consumptions, definitely need to come down. The U.S uses 40 kilos of plastic per capita per annum compared to an average Indian of 11 kilos and urban Indian of 24 kilos, right? So, absolutely, there are using more per person and absolutely their use needs to come down, right? But at the same time, do we need to pump in more plastics into our Villages? No, we don’t? Can we not look at refill models? Can be look at models how markets have been working like how people in the village buy oil right now. They go and buy oil in their own bottles. They buy oil in their dabbas like they used to.

Kinshuk: You spoke about how consumers have the biggest role to play but a village or a small town looks up to cities for the model of their development and cities are the places where both emissions and plastic consumption are the highest and it's natural for them to emulate what they look up to. How can that be put a pause to? Will this be government-led? And what rule can they play? 

Richa: So if I talk about the remotest of places. Like so we did a project in Teerthan Valley in Himachal and that's as remote as it can get because it is it has its tourist influence. They see people coming from Delhi. They see people coming from other bigger cities of North India. And it's a valley, which it takes you 12 hours to get there from Delhi itself. And it's roads are narrow. The people have a traditional way of living and single-use Plastics has crept into the valley. The government needs to step in from a bans and a regulation standpoint, something which Sikkim has done well in a couple of districts like lachang, you're not even allowed to take plastic bottles. In these places focusing on education in a way that it's more focused towards how do you keep your valley clean and Teerthan Valley had that. So, they had a local leader for about 30 years, who has fought off dams, who has fought off commercial fishing, fought off quite a few things which would have been destructive for nature. But having said that, I think sustainable cities are the examples that need to reach these guides. If you're setting an example of cities, if you're setting, an example of City practices, I think the examples that they need to see are things like Oh, Bangalore doesn't use, it doesn't allow garbage bags any longer. You need to use no liners or at most newspapers. A lot of societies are doing that. Kind of, they need to see examples of straws being banned. They need to see examples of, you know, smaller plastic bottles being banned. So, they need to see the right examples and they should also share the share examples of places like Leh as far off as remote it is, Leh has managed a very good waste segregation and waste management system. You have Indore and Bhopal, managed to clear out their landfills. And they understand, like, even in the Teerthan valley, everybody understands. The moment, I would say I'm from Delhi immediately they would associate air pollution and landfill pictures with it. So, they do understand it. They do see it. Right? And they see their beautiful surrounding Valley and their beautiful environment around them. It's just a matter of pushing them on the right nudge, which I think ngos and governments should be doing.

Kinshuk: got it. So example of good behavior are needed. You spoke about a lot of  data in the process. You also spoke about top contributors to pollution, sachet impact, Etc. If anyone was interested, where would they find this kind of information

Richa: By product, information is a little cumbersome to get. There are a few papers by UN environment. So, on the UN environment, India website, UNEP website, you can get some details. On UNDP, you can get some pollution details and CPCB releases an annual report on plastic waste. So, ever since they launched the plastic waste management rules in 2016, there is a release an annual update on it, annual audit, annual update etc, which has some of the information, and then you also have industry organizations, like FICCI and CII and AIPMA, which is the All India Plastic Manufacturers Association. So, looking at it from the other lens, from the plastic manufacturer lenses. Well, who's making what, and how much and where are they Sellin it? So, the information is available, but sadly, it's all available in bits and pieces. So, I think the easiest resource is definitely the CPCB website and the annual report to start with because it's an unbiased government report, so you can there's no profitability angle to it. I think CSE and TERI, CSE releases a good Plastics report as well, CEEW is another organization, which I think, they're working on Plastics, but I'm not very sure about their latest report, but they did release a very good detailed report earlier. And then you have big waste management ngos, like SAAHAS and Chintan Environmental Research and research Association, which work a lot on rag pickers, a lot on Waste Management, a lot of the challenges on waste management. 

Kinshuk: I'm going to check out all the acronyms that you've just spoken about. 

Tanys: So, is anything happening on teaching kids a lot of these because the sustainability mindset actually needs to be developed as early as possible right now. So, is anything happening in the social sector about teaching at a much younger age what sustainability means, or is it right now still up to NGOs and well-meaning individuals to pick up the mantle? 

Richa: No, absolutely. There's a lot of efforts happening actually and this is the good part. Most of the education boards in India have a mandatory environment subject now, both at school levels and at college levels. What detail it is taught at and what is the quality? Of course, needs Improvement, but there is definitely a lot of work that's been done on that. You will find a lot of a lot of these private, play schools and preschools and even young kids who are taught about plastic. They actually go back home and tell their parents, oh we're not going to use a plastic Straw from today or we're not going to use a plastic bag from today, etc. So, it's actually very encouraging like every time we've done workshops for schools or teachers or anything, we've actually seen this happen, a lot. They're already teaching kids, right from a very young age. A lot of the interns that we get are way more passionate about the environment than even we used to be in college. They study about it. They know about it. And in fact, I think the number of courses that have been made available on sustainable MBAs, sustainable, sustainable businesses, social impact, environmental impact, just the sheer number of courses that are now available at undergraduate and postgraduate level. They also indicate this shift towards driving that as a mainstream agenda. So, there's definitely a lot of work that's been done. Far from what needs to be enough? So that's where, I think the NGOs and well-meaning individuals do come in. But definitely, there's an organized effort and a concerted effort towards it. So at least that's that's something good, that's happening. 

Tania: That's great to hear. Because my niece still knows nothing and she is 11 years old. So, I'm hoping 

Richa: that I'm hoping she'll ever have a course soon. 

Tania: On that note, we break such day in the next episode which are shares a recipe for making your own food powder in a jiffy and other super easy tips to bring about small changes in your daily life, to live more sustainably. 

Kinshuk: What rule can individuals play in pushing the society to a more sustainable lifestyle? And what are the simple hacks that we can adopt in our daily lifestyle to live sustainably. 

Kinshuk: To know more about what Richa does, you must visit thehappyturtle.in. Make sure you take the plastic footprint calculator quiz, it will help you understand some of the basic things that you can change in your lifestyle to live more sustainably. Thank you for the positive responses feedback, and please continue writing to us. You can reach us at greenshoots.pehlay@gmail.com. We will see you again soon with something, very engaging and very entertaining. Please keep supporting us with all the love. Thank you.